Chris Reynolds: This is Ben Harmony, it is Tuesday October 17, 2006 we re at Ben s home in Springfield, IL we are at his dining room table which is

Transcription

1 Chris Reynolds: This is Ben Harmony, it is Tuesday October 17, 2006 we re at Ben s home in Springfield, IL we are at his dining room table which is nicely cleaned off, which is great. And we re going to do an oral history on the Harmony Brother s musical career. I m Chris Reynolds and I ll be interviewing and the video taping is being done by Dean Williams Production Company. So let s get started. As I had discussed with you earlier, I wanted to talk in time frames. So the first question I wanted to talk about was your pre 1956 career, before the band gets going. So I wanted to ask, does your family have a musical background and how did you get into the music business? Ben Harmony: Well, the way that all started, there was an old gentleman who had a music school here in town and he was going door to door signing up kids to play music. Of course my dad used to sing out in the garden all the time, but he never did anything professionally. We talked and he asked if I would like to take guitar lessons. Of course Charlie wanted to, but I really didn t want to. My dad said well we can t have him going on the bus by himself downtown, clear up on North 6 th street, it was almost up to Carpenter. And he said Benny you ll have to take lessons with him. Charlie really wants to take lessons so you ll have to take lessons with him. So, I had to go cause I was the older brother; 3 and a half years older. So anyway that was how it all started, we started taking the guitar lessons, and I don t know how long we took lessons there before we started doing some singing, but our singing was mostly in church at that point. My mom was quite interested... Chris: Do your parents sing? In the church choir? Ben: No, no Chris: O.K. Ben: No, we went up here to South Side which was close, we could walk. Chris: Again, pre the band, what were the kind of music related activities that predated the band that got you started in the music industry? Ben: Well, we took lessons on steel guitar, like this guitar here, called Hawaiian guitar at the time. And, the way it s tuned we just used a bar on it and I used it for accompaniment. And like I say, we started singing in church first and as time went on, my mother listened a lot to country music and my mother kind of encouraged us to do some of the Homer and Jethro type stuff. So we started doing those songs, I played the guitar and Charlie sang and he went through all the comedy parts, I was more serious. She began taking us around to different talent shows, and so it was just the two of us at that time. Chris: Just locally? In the Springfield area? Ben: Well yeah, down to Taylorville and different places, little towns around here that were having talent shows. And radio stations, the radio stations had a lot of things going on at that time for young musicians, they had different talent shows and they would go out to these little towns and they would bring the talent shows with them. Chris: How would you characterize your act that you did at these talent shows? Was it purely country? I know you mentioned you did some comedy with it, would you call yourselves a country-comedy act. Ben: It was more country-comedy than it was just plain country. Chris: So you did like novelty songs? Ben: Yeah. Chris: Can you think of any of the songs that you did?

2 Ben: Well one that we used so many times was Too Old to Cut the Mustard. Was the name of the song. And we did that, we won several contests with that song. Chris: Was that originally recorded by someone else? or, how did you pick that up? Ben: Yes, and I can t remember who that was, it was one of the country musicians, that was a comedy song that they did, and I couldn t remember who did it. Chris: Now, including the talent shows, were you also doing like church, school events, things like that? Ben: Yes, we were real active with our church at that time, and we did a lot of singing in church. Mostly for, like on Sunday night services, or when they had special events like potlucks and that sort of thing, we provided a little entertainment.. Chris: You weren t up to the county fair circuit as yet, or doing shows, it was pretty much doing the talent shows? Ben: Well, we went out to New Berlin a few times, they always had talent shows out there. We did go to the New Berlin fair and a little later we began getting into other fairs, a couple times I think we played at the state fair, for amateur shows out there, too. Chris: Oh, O.K. For the most part talent shows and amateur shows? Ben: Right. Chris: The first thing I wanted to show you Ben was these ribbons that were in your scrap book here. And it looks like it is an International Music Organization of some type. That was at Baldwin Wallace College in Looks like both you and Charlie won an award there, what was that about? Do you remember? Ben: Well, the music school where we took lessons here, they were the ones that encouraged this and there were several of us that went, we went on a bus. I remember it was my first trip on a bus, my first trip out of town without parents, and it was quite a deal for us. And, up there we did, our orchestra did win, I don t remember what prize we won, but we did get ribbons for appearing, everybody in the orchestra got the ribbons. Chris: So you were part of an orchestra that had been organized in the area? Ben: By the music school here. Chris: The music school where you were taking your guitar lessons? Ben: Right. Chris: Oh, O.K. So lets get a little closer to when the band started, what do you think was your break out appearance with the band? Now, I saw reference to this T.V. show that went on in Decatur, the Uncle Tom s Barn Dance, and later they had a rock n roll version of that called Stairway to the Stars. Did I get that right? Is that where you think the band gelled and got it s first big break, as they say showbiz break? Ben: I think it started there, we had quite a following already. Charlie and I played one time for some kind of a birthday party or something and our guitar player at that time was there and a couple of other guitar players, so we kind of got together and practiced some and we played a few jobs with these other two guitar players. One of them was Ray Dipple, and he ended up staying with us and being in the band. But, for quite a while there was just the four of us. And then I just couldn t tell you exactly how it happened but it was mostly from parties. Chris: So when you were playing, what kind of jobs were you playing before you got the Decatur thing? Were you playing like at school dances and those kinds of things, church related square dances and things?

3 Ben: No, that came about the same time, after we once got on T.V., then we started getting opportunities to play other places, and at that point, that s when we organized the band. Chris: Right, how did they approach you about the T.V. show? Did somebody see you at one of your performances and say we got to have these guys on? Was it the comedy-country act that they noticed first? Ben: I believe it was, and I think it was probably a disc jockey who went by the name of Harry King. Harry really took an interest in us. And WMAY at the time was bringing in all the stars and that sort of thing, and Harry took an interest in us and began working with us. I think he was the one probably that saw the opportunity for us to audition for these other shows, and it just happened. Chris: We are taking about a radio show, not a T.V. show, right? Did I get that? Ben: Right. WMAY was a radio station at that time and Harry King was his jockey name on the air. Chris: So this Uncle Tom s Barn Dance, that was in Decatur? Ben: Right. Chris: Was that on a radio station also, or was that on the T.V.? Ben: You know what, I think that was a T.V. program that didn t really last real long, I don t think. Chris: But you started out doing the country thing for the T.V. show and then they said, can you do rock n roll? Then you started doing their rock n roll show for them? Ben: Well, when Elvis came along, that s really when we got the band organized and started playing the 50s rock n roll stuff. Chris: Was there a long period of time between the time you were doing the Barn Dance show and the Stairway to the Stars show? Or was it happening about the same time? This is all 1955? Ben: Well, I think the Barn Dance preceded the Stairway to the Stars and the Barn Dance was more country, but Stairway to the Stars then included 50s rock n roll and the old standards like Stardust and there were a lot of others, there was one young girl, Jackie Le Baugh, who did a lot of nice music at that time, more of the Big Band type stuff and the pop music, and Stairway to the Stars was kind of a variety show... Chris: Oh, so it wasn t just rock n roll? Ben: So, it wasn t all rock n roll. And there was not a whole lot of country on that show. It was mostly pop. Chris: Well I want to start talking about the band now, since you introduced the fact that there was an event in rock n roll that got you guys going in rock n roll. But I got to ask to begin with, and looking over all your materials, you have gone by several names, and I want to just review the names. It looks like when you first began, you were the Harmony Boys? And then you became the Harmony Brothers, that s, straighten me out if I get this wrong, and then you became the Harmony Brothers and the Harmonitones, did I get that right? Ben: Harmonitones. Chris: Harmonitones, and then you became the Harmony Boys and the Rockabeats, now was that just over time, or was it because there were different people coming in and out of the band? Ben: Mostly because of the times and what music we played, Harmony Boys sounded very country, as we went along then, people started calling us the Harmony Brothers, because they realized that we were really brothers, Charlie and I. And there was some confusion with the

4 Harmony Boys that all the boys in the band were Harmony s. And, there wasn t a problem with it, but different places where we would go to play, they would interview us and they wanted to know, were we all brothers. So we went then to the Harmony Brothers which was what the record label later on decided they wanted us to go by anyway. And the Harmonitones, at that time we were playing kind of a mixture of country, some of the old standards, 20s, 30s and 40s, Five Foot Two, Eyes of Blue, and those kinds of songs, like My Blue Heaven. Chris: So that was a little later, after the rock n roll period? Ben: No, that was kind of before the Elvis period, because a lot of these were songs that my dad liked. Chris: Oh, O.K. Ben: So, we thought that the Harmonitones was a better sounding name for the band because of it being the type of music we were playing and of course, when Elvis Presley came along and we started doing all of the 50s rock n roll and the Little Richard stuff and that, then we changed the name to the Rockabeats because it sounded more like the kind of name we needed at that point. Chris: It sounds like this all happened over a short period of time, in 56 you were the Boys, and then you decided since the rock thing started to happen you would become the Brothers, and then there was confusion about who in the band was Harmony, so you went to the two separate names with the last name being the name that you used as the performing band through most of your career, The Rockabeats? Ben: Right. Chris: And then when you got the recording contract you just became the Harmony Brothers. Ben: Right. Chris: Cause they thought that you were all in the same family. Ben: Right, you know before the Harmony Brothers and Harmony Boys, the Harmony Brothers was really a lot of just Charlie and I, but the Harmony boys was more with the band. Chris: O.K. I want to talk about these early T.V. programs that were done locally. I am at least old enough to remember American Bandstand, I want to say Bandstand got started in So there seemed to be, quickly local shows that became the local version of American Bandstand. They seemed to play a pretty pivotal role in your popularity. So, I wanted to just talk about doing those shows, what shows were there. The ones that I saw mentioned in the materials that I reviewed were Teenage Rage, which channel 20 did, here in Springfield. The Hop, which was done in Champaign and then of course this Stairway to the Stars which was a T.V. show in Decatur.. Ben: Yes, that was in Decatur. Chris: That was in Decatur. And then of course it sounded like there were a lot of radio shows that did almost the same kind of thing. They had you appear and then they interviewed you and that kind of thing. Ben: Yes, they went out and did sock-hops and that sort of thing, the disc jockeys did. They usually would hire local bands to play, there weren t too many local bands at that time, that played rock n roll we were probably one of the first. Chris: It sounds like by doing the Barn Dance show and then the Stairway to the Stars you were probably the only band available for doing all of these other shows when these

5 other T.V. stations started them up. So what was it like doing those shows? Did they have a live audience? Did the girls scream and all that stuff? Ben: Yes, we had one dance that we played, I played for quite some time out at the little towns out around Dawson and Mechanicsburg and those places. When we had the records out, we played out at Dawson. At that time we were wearing red pants, white shirts, white bucks shoes, red glittery ties, of course we always had to sign autographs afterwards. We would always stay around and sign until the last one got their autograph. Because that was the one thing we were disappointed with bands that would say well that is all we can sign and off they would go. So we stayed to sign all the autographs. And, out at Dawson, this one night, the girls actually come up on the stage, after we played and we were packing our stuff up, they got us down, took the shoe laces out of our shoes because they wanted a souvenir, then they wanted Charlie and I to autograph shoe laces. So, the next time we played out there we took all kinds of white shoe laces and we autographed shoe laces for them because they were disappointed that there were only four shoe laces for them to get. Chris: What were the format of these shows, did they actually have kids dancing on the show? Would you perform a couple of numbers and kids would dance while you were performing? Ben: Yeah, most of the time it was pretty much like the Bandstand. They didn t have huge big crowds because the studios were all small but they d have maybe six or eight couples in there dancing. Chris: Was there much difference between the shows, or were they all pretty much the same in terms of the format? Ben: They were all pretty much the same. Chris: Were there any particular radio stations that had a crucial role in giving you some exposure? Disc jockeys that you appeared with regularly, that would play your records? Ben: Right at first, WTAX was the big station, they did a lot of talent programs. There was a Jim McKinney that played big-band music and stuff. He went out on location, I think they called it the Breakfast Club and we would go out to places like the Harness House or different places. We would have breakfast and do a show from there and we would get asked to appear as guests on the show. They wouldn t have a lot of people in the audience,but they would have, once in a while. He played a big role in helping us right from the start, Jim McKinney. And then, WCVS got into doing these sort of things also, then WMAY. So they just all kind of followed suit, all real close together. Chris: This was all happening about 55, 56? Ben: Right, and of course, at the time we were real popular with the kids, because like I say we were probably the first 50s rock n roll band here in Springfield. Hoby Henson and his band came along shortly after that, so then there were the two bands that competed, but I never did really consider it competing. Because I felt that we had a little different style then their band, we had the Everly Brothers sound that we could do all of those songs and the other bands didn t do too much of the Everly s stuff. Chris: So your band starts in about 56, you are already performing in 55, you are making some T.V. appearances. Within the course of probably 24 months, all of the sudden, all of the radio stations are beginning to play rock n roll and having these rock n roll shows. All of the local T.V. stations are beginning to do American Bandstand type shows, so this happened over a very short period of time with the start of rock n roll. I wanted to show you the picture of, it appears as though you and Charlie are appearing in a T.V. studio. Two

6 pictures, there. Do you remember what that was about? Is it before or after the band got started? Ben: I kind of believe that that was the Ted Mack Amateur Hour, which was on the Chicago television station and we did have to audition for it, you didn t just get on it, you know. We auditioned and that was, at that time, that was the farthest away from home we had gone to appear any where. And we were on that station and I can t remember if that was WGN in Chicago. Chris: Do you think you did country music for that amateur show performance? Ben: I think so, because I think it was, I m not sure of the date on it, I m not sure if we had the band at that time or if it was just the two of us. Chris: I thought that was kind of interesting, these pictures, it s nice that they made them, did they give you those pictures as you left? Ben: No, this was, somebody here at home took a picture off of the television set, you can tell by the old televisions, the way they were, you know. And I can t even remember who gave us those pictures it was probably somebody that ended up being in our first fan clubs that they organized, we had a lot of kids that watched us on TV. Chris: Well, we kind of touched on it already but let s talk about the artists that probably had the most influence on your music career at that point and the band. To get the time frame right here in 1954 of course, Rock Around the Clock comes out, Bill Haley and the Comets, and that becomes a number one hit, for a year, Elvis Presley records That s Alright Mama which is, there s a debate, but a lot of people consider that the first rock n roll song recorded, so that must of predated Haley. Ben: Right, that song was one of the songs that we were singing back when we were singing Too Old to Cut the Mustard, That s Alright Mama. Chris: And then of course in 1955, the movie Blackboard Jungle comes out with the Haley song and that becomes a huge hit and the song stays on the charts, I think I saw somewhere, 38 weeks and then we re really rolling. By 1956 Elvis Presley has five number one songs and you ve got a whole host of artists that are out there doing rock n roll: Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Louis, all that kind of thing. Were you buying records at that time? Did you see that movie? Were you, how did all of this stuff that was happening influence what your band was doing? Ben: Well, I didn t see the movie Blackboard Jungle until a girl that I was going with at that time and another couple that we were friends with went to Chicago, and the girls stayed with relatives of theirs and we stayed with my sister and we saw Blackboard Jungle in Chicago. It was such a controversial thing at the time, we didn t know if we could see it in Springfield. Chris: Did you even know if it was going to play here in Springfield? Ben: Well, we didn t know if it was going to get here or not so we went to Chicago to see it. But, Elvis Presley probably was our biggest influence, then probably Bill Haley and from there, the Everly Brothers, Jerry Lee Louis, Little Richard and of course that, you know, when Little Richard became popular, a lot of the radio stations weren t playing his music because he was a black artist. That was back during the time that they had black stations and white stations and we really liked him, and of course all the kids wanted to hear, his music, so we played it. Chris: So, Chuck Berry, Little Richard those kind of bands, as well as obviously the Everly Brothers influenced your sound, which was a lot like the Everly Brothers.

7 Ben: Fats Domino is another one. Chris: Oh yeah, absolutely. And the Everly Brothers, I think, it s kind of interesting, I ve been looking at, kind of tracking your career with the Everly Brothers and you hit about the same time, they started having hits I think in 57 or so, they were discovered in Nashville by Chat Atkins and had a professional song-writing team at their disposal and I think it was 1957 when they really started having their hits. No, yeah it was 1957, so you guys were already doing T.V. performances and that kind of thing, so although that might have really helped to sign your record contract. We ll talk about that later. I just wondered about, some of the local artists, which played in this time period. When I look at the reunion concert that was done in 98 and so I picked up some of the names of the people that were locally playing, did some of those people have any kind of influence on you? Bill Evans was one name I picked up, he seemed to be in lots of rock bands, he seemed to be a very legendary guitarist. Ben: Most of these, most of these probably that you are going to name came along just shortly after we got going, because at different times many of these people substituted in our band for somebody else, if somebody got sick or something, Bill Evans was one of the first ones that substituted in the band when we needed him, he was there. Chris: Now, Jules Blattner was another name that I saw repeatedly, over and over again, now does he come after you, or kind of at the same time, cause I know he is from St. Louis? Ben: No, we were about the same time because we were both on the record label together. Chris: He was on Bobbin. There was a name that popped up several places, Louis Harmony, now he wasn t related at all, Ben: That s my cousin. Chris: That s your cousin, oh, O.K. Ben: He played drums with us for quite some time, a couple different times. Chris: Oh yeah, so at one time you were a three brother band, or a cousin rather and brothers, at least he was in the family. How about some of the black artists that I saw mentioned? Did Eddy Snow, Roy Williams or Marvin Jackson these people performing doing this time period? Ben: Marvin Jackson, it was real funny with Marvin Jackson because Harry King from WMAY knew him, and he told us that, you know, he thought that we sounded so much like the Everly Brothers and that was good but, he thought that if we could get together with Marvin Jackson and some of his friends, we could pick up a black sound behind us, which would give us a better option on Bobbin Label. Chris: Which was very much behind what Elvis Presley was doing. Ben: So, at that time, you know, there was a lot of prejudice and so Harry said well, Ben I know you live in pretty much of a white neighborhood, he says, let me see if I can set something up with Marvin out at his place. So, it was over on South 15 th or 16 th, probably 16 th, I think it was, we went over there to practice with Marvin and his group. Chris: Do you remember what his group was called? I didn t see reference to what his group was called. Ben: No, I don t remember, they might have just went by Marvin Jackson. Chris: Were they considered just a rhythm and blues group or were they rock? Ben: Yeah, more or less, we went over to his house to practice, it was a little house and we were all, I ll never forget, we were all sitting in the living room there, at that time we had a drummer and my guitar player and I and Charlie, I guess. And there was just the four of us, and so, we re there practicing in his house, and in comes Marvin s father and he says, put

8 that stuff away, that music is not the kind of music you boys should be listening to, he said you ought to be playing church music. I was scared to death; he absolutely scared me to death. Chris: How did your parents feel about you going over to the other side of town to practice with Marvin and the band? Ben: Well they felt better about that than bringing them over here. You know, and of course that was people s attitude back then and our neighborhood was all white and they probably would have been very uncomfortable coming over here but, you know, Ray lived over on South 18 th street so many times, we practiced on his front porch and we had black and white kids both all out there in the crowd listening to us, you know, and cheering us on and everything, so it wasn t fearful at all for us to go over in that neighborhood and play cause that was Ray s neighborhood, you know. Chris: Would it have been impossible for you and Marvin s group to play at the same establishment or the same show or something like that because of the attitudes of that period of time? Ben: Well, you just didn t see it happening, now, a little bit later... Chris: Now, Allen Freed was putting on some integrated concerts at that point, it seems very controversial, too. He got himself into some trouble. Ben: But in the early 60s when we played downtown, we were at one bar, and Marvin and his group was at a bar just about four doors from us. And I ll never forget the owner of the bar where we played at he says you guys keep attracting those guys from down the street in here, and he says my customers really don t like it because whenever they took their break, they would come down and hear us and of course we would go down and hear them when we took our break, you know. But it was real funny because, it wasn t probably real funny to them but it was just strange the way things were back then. Things have changed a lot today. Chris: So how was it resolved that you guys would blend your sound, obviously you had some practice together but it just wasn t going to happen. Ben: No we just never did really get it to work. We had other practices with them, and we enjoyed, you know, and of course there was a few times that, I think, there may have been a time or two that Marvin sang with us when we were downtown, but I m just not real sure. Chris: We talked about this a little bit but I want to talk, at least a little bit about the musical styles that influenced the band. The fact that you had a lot of people coming in and out of the band, it was hard for me from the materials to figure out at what point they were in the Band. So maybe it was always going on, just to name some of the people that were in your band, Ray Dipple, Gordon Jones, Bill Waldmire, who of course is famously related to the Route 66 people here in town, Tom Blasko, who I think was on the school board for a while, probably a prominent Republican in town. He owned the Lake Club for a while? I think I read reference to that. Ben: They had the business there; I don t know that, there were two of them in there as partners. And I don t remember if they bought the place or they leased it, but they ran it, anyway, it was their business. Chris: And then Gary Turley, and Jerry Black came in as a sax player later on, maybe when you made your sound a little more rhythm and blues and Mike Brokamp, and I wasn t sure what he played, Ben: Sax Chris: Sax, I also noticed that there were a few shots that were of some accordion players.

9 Ben: Well, that was Tom Blasko. Chris: So, that was Tom Blasko, it sounds like you came from a very strong country background, you were obviously influenced by Elvis and maybe some rhythm and blues type acts like Chuck Berry and Little Richard and those kind of bands, and maybe even more bluesy type stuff. Would you say that is the major influences, and did these people that came in and out of your band, did they change your style at all as they came in and out because their abilities as musicians? Ben: No, it was just that with some of them, after they married, you know, they decided that they didn t want to play any longer, or the wife got tired of all the traveling around with the husbands, and there weren t any hard feelings, with any of them, I mean there was never any friction, or anything like that caused the departure. Chris: So no one said well I don t like the direction that the band is going and so I am leaving. Ben: No, it was never anything like that, it was just that at different times, different things changed in their life and they had to adjust to that so we would lose a player and we would pick up somebody else. We always had somebody waiting that wanted to play, you know. Chris: Clearly, even from the name changes, you and Charlie were the main part of the band, obviously, and the other players were kind of like front players and they were interchangeable in terms of, although I must ask you, I have to ask you about a picture here of a guitarist. There s a couple of pictures of a guitarist there. And he s doing, I ve seen a lot of blues guitarists do that kind of stuff, but the rock guitarists to begin with were kind of doing the Chuck Berry duck walk or whatever, but this is, he was playing behind his back and was that a regular part of your act? Ben: Yes it was, at that time I was able to do those kinds of things, I did the back bend with the guitar over my head and of course they really, the people got excited about it cause it was the type of things that Chuck Berry and them did, you know. Chris: Right, right. So, you thought that might have been Ray, but it might have also been you doing that? Ben: No, that s me there. Ray is in the background, he s up here. Chris: So that was you doing that? Ben: Yeah, that s me. Chris: I m impressed. That s really good. Ben: I m depressed, cause I can t do it no more. Chris: That s really good stuff, I tell ya. Do you remember what song you used to do that in, any particular song or did you do it several times in an act? Ben: It was usually a Chuck Berry song, Johnny Be Good because I could get that behind my back, you know. Chris: Did you do the duck walk too? Ben: Oh, I could, but I didn t do that so much as I did this, they just really were impressed with that. Chris: Very impressive. Ben: Ray sometimes would do the duck walk. He would just clown around in the background, you know. Chris: In terms of the instrumentation of the band, you always had a drum player, and occasionally had keyboards and accordion, in terms of guitar parts, was Ray your lead guitarist? You would do rhythm, who was doing bass?

10 Ben: Well, later on we had Rich Hopper on the bass, and he had played with Marty Ushman s band, he played with a lot of the bands, we had tried bass players at different times, then they always seemed like they wanted to be the loudest in the band, and that didn t go over too good with the other fellows in the band, they wanted to be heard, too. So, until Rich came along, and then Rich was with us a long time, and he played a good bass and did not drown everybody else out. So, we basically were the accordion, lead guitar, I played rhythm guitar and a drummer, for many years it was just the four of us. Chris: And Charlie sang, right, so he really didn t play the guitar? He was more your lead singer? Ben: No, he was more the PR guy in the band and did all this getting people going, you know I was kind of bashful, Charlie wasn t. He could really get the crowd going. Chris: Well, we ll ask Charlie about some of that stuff. Now, while you re doing this, is Charlie doing an Elvis Presley thing? (referring to a pictures in scrap book) Ben: No this was, this here was after Charlie had left and got his own band. He had been in the service, and when he come out of the service, our likes and dislikes in music were a little different so he organized his own band at that time. Chris: OK, so this, these pictures are after the actual Harmony Brothers in your other band. OK well I am glad we cleared that up. I am still very impressed, that s even later, you were even older than that. Ben: Yeah, that was early 60s, yeah the photograph says May of 61. Chris: OK, I missed that, so that would have been after the Harmony Brothers? Would Charlie have left by then? I want to talk about your memories of some of the places that you played here in Springfield, and some of the artists that you either, the Harmony Brothers band or yourself, opened for or played with or even maybe saw them perform in Springfield and were able to go back stage afterwards or whatever. Some of the places that I had, well I had a whole list of places, that come up in all these scraps of newspaper clippings and things, Virgil s and Betty s and the Derby, are these all sounding familiar? Ben: Those are bars, yeah. Chris: Big Earl s Hop, The Buckhorn. Ben: Big Earl s Hop was a teenage place and the Buckhorn, that was later, it was Big Earl s Hop and then went back to the Buckhorn, I think. It was the original Buckhorn and they closed up and became a teenage place and then it went back to being a bar. Chris: It sounds like you played a lot in places like Grandview and Girard and Taylorville and those kind of places, various bars. Ben: Raymond, 9 years, 9 years at Raymond every Saturday night at the American Legion Hall. Chris: Oh OK, I talked to a few people who remember seeing you play and they remember the Elks club down on 6 th street. Which is now an office, probably a state office building, or something like that. And Teen Land was mentioned a lot, and you were in their ads, there was a lot of advertising related to Teen Land, was that sort of a premier place for people to play at that time? Ben: No, it, that was at 15 th and Taft which is at the southeast corner of the fairgrounds, about a block north and a block east of there. And it had been for years, it had been an old nightclub, a strip club and across the street from it was a place called the Rex club. And it was still a strip club, and no air conditioning, they had the doors open at night and when, there was a couple named Ruth and Bob Taylor, who opened up this Teen Land, they had the

11 idea of making it a teenage nightclub and it was very nice that it had the raised tables on the side where you could look out on the dance floor, you could see the band, people weren t in front of you where the band was up on stage. Really, really a nice place and he had some background, well, right away they complained about the kids being able to see the strippers in the strip club coming up to park there because the doors were open on the strip club. So older people began to raise a ruckus about that. Chris: So the crowds were kind of mixing to an extent, because that place was right across the street. Ben: Well not really, because that was really older people. It was just that, you know, young kids back then, if you got a chance to look at some of this or peak at it you peaked. Chris: So it wasn t that the rowdy people that were going to the strip club, that were bothering the kids, it was just them looking. Ben: It was just them leaving the doors open to where the kids could see this but back then they didn t have air conditioning, you know. So, anyway they dug back into Bob s background and they found something, he had served prison time at one time, so they closed the place because he could not run it with his past record, you know. And, so anyway they took me out to dinner one night and talked to me at a steakhouse there on, it was at 5 th and Sangamon avenue, I can t remember the name of it. They took me out there to eat and during the conversation we were talking and they said that they would like to see the place open back up again and would I take over as manager of it because with my reputation I could go in there and run it, you know. Chris: What year is this that we are talking about? This has got to be later, after the band used to play there? Ben: No, let s see, I was still driving a 55 Ford. Chris: So you were... Ben: So it had to be somewhere between 55 and 59, it was before I got married. Chris: So you were like 18, 19 years old and they asked you to be the manager of the place? Ben: yeah, so anyway after all of the red tape that they went through, they were able to reopen as long as I was manager. So, but they cautioned me at that time that I was not to take any under aged girls home, they were going to be watching me and, I mean I was watched and I was followed several nights. Chris: Are we talking about the City of Springfield or who was... Ben: It was in the county at the time and so it was... Chris: So it would be the Sangamon County Sheriff? Ben: Yeah, and there was a deputy that we knew at the time that was really a nice man Bob Fahey, and he told me. He said Benny pay attention to what they say, because he said they are looking for a reason to close that place. And, I found out later, she had many offers from two Springfield politicians who wanted in on the ownership or managing of that place and that s where the problem lay, was in the fact that they wanted a part of it. Chris: Always a political side to the story here in Springfield. Ben: Yeah, they were out to get me, but what they really didn t know, was that I had a very strict father and he gave me exactly one half hour from the time we quit out there to pack up my instruments and be home. So there was no way I could drop anybody off even. Chris: No time to go to the strip club across the street. Ben: At that time no, so anyway then, you know but the original complaint was that the young people were able to see the strippers in the place next door.

12 Chris: But there may have been some other issues it sounds like. Ben: Yeah there were other things behind it. Chris: So how long did you manage the Teen Land then after that? Ben: Well I think she was probably open for a couple of years after that. Chris: Yeah, O.K. There s reference to a teen center in the cabbage patch part of town, which is kind of interesting to me because I know where that area of town is and you hear stories about that, what was that all about, was there a place that you played there? Ben: Yeah, it was the Mildred Belmont Youth Center and it was right over by, it was close to where the AC Union Hall. It was where they had all the dances and stuff for years, it was right over in that area, it backed up to the railroad tracks there between there and Stanford. It was a really nice place for kids, and they were wanting something to keep their kids busy in that area. Chris: So it was a real active community that used to sponsor these concerts? Let s start talking about the more upscale places where you probably, maybe played with bigger stars. I got to ask you about, I ve seen reference to this Battle of Bands at the Abraham Lincoln Hotel. Do you remember that at all? What are you memories of that? It looks like you won the Battle of the Bands and I don t know whether you beat local bands? Ben: Yeah, it was mostly local bands. And I remember it, but not real well. Chris: I remember the format of those, you would play a song and then they would play a song and then maybe they would use crowd response to decide who was winning and then maybe if there was a tie you would play another song, is that kind of the way it went? Do you remember anything about what music you played that night? Did you do your original stuff? Ben: No we did stuff that I am sure, you know, Charlie and I sang, probably we probably did, he did a lot of Elvis stuff, I did a lot of Jerry Lee Lewis stuff and we did the Everly Brothers so it was probably songs of those types that we did. Chris: So probably songs that were popular on the charts at that time. O.K. There s reference of course to this series that I think the radio station sponsored called Shower of the Stars, it was at the armory, and it looked like some pretty big acts came in and played there, were you, did you open for any of those acts? Ben: Well, I think their very first one was at the Orpheum Theatre. And it got, so big that that s when they went on to the armory then. But we played at the one at the Orpheum and Johnny and the Hurricanes were there, a lot of real popular stars at that time were there. And that one we played at. Now the others, Charlie got behind stage a lot and met a lot of the different ones at the armory. Chris: O.K. Yeah I saw mention of some of the people that maybe played there at that time there was Buddy Holly obviously and I think Charlie s got a story about meeting Waylon Jennings who was in a band at that time, Freddy Canon, Fabian. Ben: Yeah, Fabian, he was really nice. He was friendly. Chris: So you got to meet him? Ben: Yeah, I got to meet him. Chris: Dion and the Belmonts, and also later on, and I ll ask Charlie about this, but he s got pictures of Louis Armstrong and Diana Ross, which I m sure maybe they just played here in town. Cause Charlie was kind of a celebrity in town he would get back stage? Ben: Oh yeah, it was pretty easy to get back stage at that time, if you really wanted to get back and meet people.

13 Chris: Now I know you had a story about opening for Jerry Lee Louis, was that with your band, not the Harmony Brothers, do you recall that? Ben: No, I think, I think Charlie was there with us at that time. Because it was right after we had our records out. Chris: So you opened for Jerry Lee Lewis, where was that at? Ben: It was at, a swimming pool, I think it was Down s swimming pool. Chris: This was in St. Louis? Ben: It was like a splash party, yeah, and I was petrified because they were throwing everybody in the pool and I couldn t swim. Chris: So, do you remember when that was because let s see Jerry Lee Lewis hit the skids, when did his scandal hit? It was I guess in 1958, is when he supposedly, I guess not supposedly, but married his under aged cousin. Ben: Yeah, I was, I have to go back and think what car I was driving, I was driving a 59 Chevy that my wife had bought. Chris: Is that how you make reference to the time, by what car you were driving? Ben: We had bought that just before we got married, and I was married at the time, so it had to be 59, 60 maybe or 61, but he was really on the skids at that time and he drove up from Louisiana in a Cadillac. Chris: So this was just a private party? It wasn t a concert or a show? Ben: No they had, they advertised that it, it was advertised over the St. Louis radio stations and it was just a pool party that they had him scheduled to play for. Chris: And they were concerned about whether the audience would be accepting of him because he had this scandal? Ben: So they asked us to, they asked my band to get out in the crowd, spread out and get out and give applause when he did his numbers, you know. Chris: What do you remember about old Jerry Lee Lewis, anything in particular? Ben: Oh, he was funny. The thing I remember was that he drank vodka in milk. Chris: He must have had an ulcer as well as a drinking problem. Ben: We were with the people, and I can t remember their names, there was two sisters and a brother I think that the pool was in the family or something and they lived right there by the pool and we had, we got to meet him and sit with him and his band and talk to them and visit with them, which was really something for us. Chris: Was he a very personable guy? After a couple of milks and vodkas? Ben: Oh yeah. He was, well you know, when all this crazy stuff come out that he had done, we just could hardly believe it cause he was such a, seemed like such a friendly, happy-golucky guy, you know. Chris: He didn t have his wife with him, did he? Ben: No, I think it was just he and the band. We didn t meet her. Chris: And then of course there were places like the Pekin Theatre and we already talked about the Orpheum, were there any other places you remember in Springfield that I haven t mentioned that you have any memories about? Ben: Well, there was a place out on Monroe street that had been a bar for several years, a nightclub and it was owned by people by the name of Throop, here in town, Throop Tree Service family, they opened that place and we went out there and played, right out there across from the middle school and it was up on a hill like Chris: So where Fairhills Mall is right now?

14 Ben: Yeah, it was made into a teenage place, a lot of the places where the bars got into trouble they went to teenage dances then. Chris: So they didn t serve liquor, obviously, in these places, but enough of those kinds of places had opened up so that you had a lot of places to play in Springfield and around. Ben: Oh yeah, then we began to play a lot of the school proms. Chris: Right. How many times a week were you playing, do you think, during those years? Several times a week? Ben: I ve told many people, I said, you know, there were a lot of musicians that just play music and they don t work jobs besides and when in 59 after my wife and I got married, at Virgil s and Betty s, there was a time that we played eleven nights in a row without a night off. And we played till one o clock in the morning and I had to be at work at eight o clock the next morning. And I never missed a day of work when I was playing. Chris: And where were you working full-time at that point? Ben: Illinois Insect Control. And I had worked there; I worked there for about nine years I guess. And most of the time while I was playing, but for the most part we played pretty much three nights every week sometimes four. Chris: What kind of money were you making playing at these places? You had a band of like five sometimes six people, Ben: Yeah, we would get 50 or 60 dollars for three or four hours. Chris: So everybody got like 10 bucks, 10 bucks or something like that for playing? And if you played eleven nights in a row, well, I guess you are talking about some real money there. Ben: Oh yeah, because I was only making about 55, 60 a week so I mean that was twice my pay. Chris: That s pretty good, yeah. O.K. Well let s talk about the Bobbin Records period and which looks, roughly looks about 1959 to You were under contract at Bobbin Records and I am interested in, your first recording session. I guess it was the Premier Recording Studio in St. Louis is where you would go and record your records down there? Ben: I guess, I don t remember the name of it. Chris: Well you know I only know because I looked at all your materials and stuff. Do you remember how many sessions you actually had with them, were they doing them annually or every six months or and I was unclear as to how many records you put out, so, give us kind of an overview of that if you can. Ben: You know, I can t even remember what it was costing for their recording studio, but I thought it was lots of money, which I m sure it wasn t, but they were charging by the hour to use the studio and Bob had told us to be sure we had our material ready before we came down there to record. And I don t remember if we did all three of those records in one session or if we might have went back for a second session, but we might have went back for a second session because when we did Lock on the Old Back Door and Remember Me that recording was a much better quality recording than, the other two were, so we probably went for two sessions. Chris: So two sessions in all for Bobbin Records, and how many records then did you cut? Maybe three singles with an A side and a B side? Ben: Right. Chris: So three records then. And I ve got, that CD of the copies of your recordings, is that pretty much all of the stuff that you recorded with Bobbin? So there were three records

15 recorded. Did you pretty much do all your original songs or just some of your original songs? Ben: They were all original except Remember Me. That was Stuart Hamblin. Chris: Did the record company have any opinion about whether you should do covers or your own songs... Ben: Well no, they wanted us to do our own, to do our own songs. Chris: O.K. Ben: And then like I say they at one time there, Bob gave us some music that had been turned over to him that they thought might be good for Charlie and I to do there were three or four songs that they were, they were nice songs but we never did get to record them. Chris: You never got to record them. The, who were the musicians that you used in the sessions, was it your band at that point or did they bring people in? Ben: No, it was just our band. Chris: Can you remember who the people were, since you had a lot of members of your band, who the people were? And I can ask Charlie this, too. But who were in the sessions? Ben: Charlie and I and Ray Dipple, I think the drummer at that time, boy I don t remember. Chris: Was it Bill Waldmire maybe at that time? Ben: I don t know if it was Bill Waldmire or if it was Gordon Jones, I m not sure. Chris: Yeah, Gordon might have been your original guy, so maybe he and this is 59, so he d have still been with you by then? Ah it doesn t matter. Ben: Well, I m not sure, let s see, Jerry Black was the saxophone player, there was Jerry and Tom and Ray, Charlie and I, I guess. The five of us, and the drummer, there was six of us. I don t remember. Chris: You don t remember who was your drummer, you know you had several drummers, you know that thing about drummers and rock n roll bands. I was just thinking about Spinal Tap and the drummer in band. I ve noticed in some of the write ups on the record company, it was a rhythm and blues type record company, for the most part, most of the artists they had signed. Did they want you to do a more rhythm and blues type presentation? Ben: No, but he said, it was basically a black label, outside of Jules Blattner and us and he was, I think he was trying to get into the radio stations with our songs. Chris: He wanted to move over into the crossover, to the white stations or the pop stations or the rock n roll stations and signing you and Jules Blattner was an attempt to do that, right. Did you produce your own records, or did they have somebody there that helped produce it? Ben: No, we had to do it all ourselves. Chris: There was no staff. Ben: Didn t have all that good stuff. Chris: So it was basically like, the sessions were like live performances then; you weren t like laying down track or anything. They would just say O.K. let s start this and how many takes would you do on a song? Do you remember? Ben: It didn t take very many. Chris: You didn t want to use a lot of time because it was expensive. Ben: And all of us, all of the fellows in our band could play music or by ear. Ray couldn t play from music, the guitar player, lead guitar player, he played only by ear and telling him what key you were in didn t help at all. Chris: So you did the three records. Did you ever find out how many records you sold, or could you tell from the royalty checks that you had sold many records?